Q. You therefore still think that after your army's policy of genocide a union is still possible between East and West Pakistan?

A. The fact that you use the word genocide shows that you do not know Pakistan. And then, I can tell you something about the history of Pakistan. The first to have asked for the creation of the State were actually the East Pakistanis. So I am very confident about the future: Bengali will remain Pakistan.

Q. Yet, one of the reasons for the crisis in Bengal is that you met with failure. Before you said that you did not ‐ have other political ambitions than to give the Pakistanis a parliament and a constitution. But no sooner had the people chosen their leader then your army intervened....

A. That was Mujibur Rahman's [the Bengali leader] fault. You know, between you and me, he was perhaps a gifted speaker but he was not in the least cut out to be a leader. He was brilliant and very sure of himself in public, but in front of me he was no more than a ... how can I describe him? Than a “little cat,” not more than that.

Common sense is required to govern a country. I am a soldier myself. I was not brought up to rule. I rely on my common sense. Mujibur Rahman was a little fascist who had no sense of proportions. The people elected, him on a program of autonomy. Intoxicated, he immediately talked of independence.

Q. Before making the army intervene you had ten days of negotiations in Dacca with Mujibur Rahman. What happened then?

A. On one side Mujibur Rahman had the majority of the votes in East Pakistan; on the other, Bhutto [leader of the majority party in West Pakistan] had won in West Pakistan.

This was the first time that general elections had been held. I wanted the elected of both these major parties to create a constitution to install civil rule in place of military rule. But with Mujibur, all discussion was impossible.

Q. How did your last talk with Mujibur Rahman go off?

A. Mujibur told me: “If you do not sign an agreement with me there will be a revolt in East Pakistan tomorrow.” I looked at him and replied: “Well, go ahead with your revolution.”

(President Yahya Khan sighed and said: “I was really sorry ... for him.”)

Q. But you speak of him in the past? What has become of him?

A. He is in prison.

Q. Where?

A. I have no idea. Does your President in France know where all the criminals are? And if he is capable of doing so, it is because you do not have many in your country.

Q. But he is all the same your main enemy. ...

A. He is not my personal enemy. He is that of the Pakistani people. Don't worry, everyone in Pakistan knows where he is. But it is useless to ask them, they will not tell you.

Q. But international opinion?

A. I have had enough of justifying myself. I said that he was alive, one has only to take my word for it.

Q. One spoke of the army atrocities concerning the tragic night of March 25.

A. One has forgotten to speak of the atrocities of the Awami League. On March 2 already, in Chittagong, the Awami League grabbed the non Bengalis, Biharis, Punjabis, and others, and bled them to death. A slaughter. This is only one of the events: Read the White Book that my Government has published on the question.

Q. But your army?

A. My army is a professional army and well trained. I myself was trained in the Indian Army. If my soldiers kill, they kill in a clean way.

Q. You have denied that there were 250,000 dead.

A. This is very exaggerated, but of course there were some deaths. What happened in Dacca was not a football match. When one fights, one does not throw flowers.

Q. What is the situation now in East Pakistan?

A. As regards law and order, every thing is now under the control of my army except for a few frontier zones. And I can tell you that I am still firmly committed to transferring the reins of the Government to the people.

Q. What is the present Situation on the frontiers?

A. Go and have a look there. It is not at all quiet For India continues to infiltrate troops and encourage the re volt. This is why the refugees cannot return. This can be accepted within a certain limit, but the situation cannot last. Already in normal times what is happening on the frontier would mean war. Try and send 25‐1b, bombs over the frontier of another country. These are what we are getting. Well I am observing this with great patience but. I take advantage of this to warn the world that if the Indians imagine they will be able to take one morsel of my territory without provoking war, they are making a serious mistake. Let me warn you and warn the world that it would mean War, out and out war, which I hate. But to defend my country I will not hesitate.

Q. To settle the frontier conflict, do you intend to negotiate with India?

A. On more than one occasion I de dared that I was ready to discuss with India but I did not get a response.

(President Yahya got up. The inter view was at an end. He accompanied me to the entrance hall. He was smiling). I asked him: “But if you meet Mrs. Indira Gandhi what would you say to her?”

He burst out laughing once more and replied: “I will not meet her. She cannot bear the sight of me. But this does not embarrass me. Because she is neither a woman nor a Head of State by wanting to be both at once. She does not have her father's quali ties.”

“But what would you say to her?”

(Another laugh). Then General Yahya said:

“I would say to her: ‘Shut up, woman, leave me alone and let my refugees come back’.”